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The United Cities of Talaran
#31
Very interesting reading, thank you @pierre.

I do have a question. With the ESURE project for express subways, do sins end up preferring these routes over traditional routes for reasons aside from congestion itself? (In other words, are they faster beyond merely being more efficient?)

And if you were to have two fairly parallel subway lines (maybe a block or so apart), will sims go towards a less congested line even if it is a further walking distance?

Regards,
-Darth
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#32
@Darth-Apple: The ESURE project is described in this thread in SC4D: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7397.0. The 'ES' letters in the acronym refer to 'Express Subways', a notion that in RL, to my knowledge, has been only implemented in large scale in the New York City subway system. Essentially, 'Express Subways' are subway trains that do not stop at all stations; they run on their own tracks, that have platforms only at selected stations (in principle every 3rd or 4th station of the normal lines). The express trains do not run faster - or only marginally so - than the normal trains, but their commercial speed is faster because they do not have to break to a stop, dwell for passenger exchange and re-accelerate at every station.

In the game, there is only one category of subway, so there is a single 'speed' and a single capacity for any subway, regardless of how many stations it has. ESURE can simulate express subway lines, by having less stations than normal subway lines, but the capacity is the same for both types of lines. It is then a matter of where Sims can enter and exit stations of the 'express subway' lines, in comparison to normal subway stations. It can surely help to carry more Sims, but to what extent, it is difficult to say.

I am not sure to which extent Sims will use a less congested subway line running in parallel to a congested one. Where I have implemented parallel subway lines in my cities, I have noted that there is a tendency to 'even out' the load on those lines as game time passes. All this is managed by the Traffic Simulator; as cities grow, the work of the simulator increases. There is an excellent tutorial about it in the SimCity wiki: http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.ph..._Simulator. I have tried to build my cities while keeping in mind the explanations in that tutorial, not always successfully.
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#33
Ah, makes sense. I noticed that about NYC's subways. It was overall well designed in manhattan, but outside of manhattan it could be confusing to figure out which lines went where. I was always curious how the subway lines in SC4 worked for the traffic simulator.

None of my lines ever got too congested to where I needed to really worry, but I generally ran a fair number of them in parallel just because it was easy to set them down. Your subway lines are all very interesting and well designed. I'm impressed with how much of the general proportion of traffic you have been able to route through the subways.

Thank you for the post. Very interesting read.
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#34
Here is a continuation of the discussion about commuting and the use of subways in the Talaran cluster of cities. A goo example is provided by the city of Marlande. This is a global view of the city:

[Image: QZYPxo.jpg]

The corresponding zone view is as follows:

[Image: zuFp51.jpg]

The very large commercial area occupies the center of the city are and extends to the south. The largest residential area is on the northeastern side, separated from the commercial zone by a relatively narrow river.

This disposition imposes crossings of the river to link the northeastern residential area to the commercial area. This is achieved by 3 avenue bridges, 1 road bridge, 1 railway bridge and 8 subway tunnels.

The car load on the avenue and road bridges is quite light; the use of buses is extremely low and restricted to the road bridge:

[Image: SWqxct.jpg]

The railway line is used for local commuting: it links a train station in the middle of the residential area, to the main train station in the center of the commercial area:

[Image: l886Lr.jpg]

The bulk of the commuting between the residential and commercial areas is done by the GLR/subway network. The GLR is predominant in the residential area, there are are GLR-to-subway transitions close to the river, and the river is crossed by 8 subway tunnels that continue into the commercial area:

[Image: vjCdSx.jpg]

The respective usage figures in those tunnels (all figures are for the morning commute) are as follows:

[Image: tl1QvM.jpg]

The very large usage of the subways, relatively to the very limited usage of the avenue and road bridges, is caused by the use of the 'Ultra' variant of the traffic simulator, that variant favorises the use of public transportation - probably to an extreme degree as shown by the above pictures and figures. Since the northeastern residential area is entirely built, the number of commuters crossing the river is expected to remain quite stable. There remains a limited amount of space for residential housing in the southwestern part of the city.

-------------

In general I am not too happy with the implementation of airports in the game, so that I tend to place one airport in each city and then more or less forget about it. Out of curiosity I checked the airport in Marlande and found out that it isn't used at all:

[Image: TKBwBE.jpg]

I can't explain why this is so; if someone has an idea or a tip I'll be quite obliged.
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#35
Firstly, I really like Marlande.. the layout of the larger river + the 2 smaller rivers you have here is a favorable set up to me Smile

I like the location of your CBD.. in fact i am quite sure that is where I would have placed this also Smile

I really like how you used the subway system and it seems you have an excellent balance with using 8 subway tunnels  for handling the traffic..

I think it was about what i was expecting compare to how many use your road systems..

on the airport non function :

I have noticed this type of thing in my cities sometimes also. It seems to happen most often when I first start playing, but it goes
away as i run the city longer.. Try doing this Pierre , and please let us know if this solves it ?
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#36
The layout is much cleaner than what I can pull off. I have to make it patchwork to get it to function. I guess that's what happens when your transit skills aren't great.

Keep it coming pierreh!
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#37
yes, I know Pierre has always been one of the strongest Mass transit players I ever met in sc-4 Smile

Ive known this for many years now
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#38
In my initial post in this CJ I illustrated, among other things, the triple direct subway connection between Arcens and Cherenne, running in a corner of Deramey.

That triple connection continues to be a source of concern, for various reasons. For one thing, since it involves 3 cities, including the middle one (Deramey) that plays a totally passive role in the connection but still has to carry the traffic, it is very difficult to get the traffic figures to balance between the 2 cities at each end of the connection. I have actually more or less given up on the task of getting figures to converge.

The respective traffic figures, measured in the middle city (Deramey), haven't changed much and the respective loads are still quite unbalanced:

[Image: SUgTrs.jpg]


In Cherenne, in an attempt to get more usage of the middle subway connection, I implemented a tunnel junction (circled in red)  that, in actual practice, would be a no-no in any subway system with tight frequencies of trains:

[Image: qb5qAK.jpg]

It is worth noting that the traffic figure of the middle connection (18528) matches exactly the one measured in Deramey, whereas the figures of the other 2 connections vary a lot.

The cities will be played further and the situation monitored. I'll show later the Arcens side, where currently the left-most connection shows total saturation (65535).
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#39
It seems that SC4 is using a pretty simplistic algorithm to determine the routes that get used. It seems surprising, but with the game running on a single core... well... I wish they had made this game 5 years later! Tongue

Do you find that if the routes are maybe slightly different (e.g. maybe a single-station difference on each one) that it might recalculate the routes that are used and balance them out a bit more? My subways were never this popular in my cities. Finna

Nice updates as always. Thank you for posting!
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#40
Pierre,

thanks for your latest CJ posting !

I have experienced similar frustrations trying to get neighbor connections to balance out  with traffic figure amounts..
However it is interesting ( but certainly odd), that the 2 outer tubes did show more balance now, even though you were trying to effect the middle tube , which as you pointed out unchanged.. I think the best try for me, was always to use the smaller connecting cross- tubes between main lines... As you have already illustrated the effects of constructing the first one of these..
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#41
This is a continuation of my observations and musings about subway inter-city connections, and more specifically about the triple connection between Arcens and Cherenne, passing thru Deramey.


The first picture in this post shows the zoning in Cherenne. As is the case in other cities, I didn't pay attention to the respective locations of the zones, in order to ensure that inter-city traffic would remain moderate. The Sims in the northern residential areas and in the central western area can find work in the commercial zone; those in the southwest residential area will prefer to look for work at the southern border (border to Deramey):

[Image: uS13ZL.jpg]

In Cherenne the 3 subway tunnels originate in the residential zone in the southwest corner of the city. Like other residential areas it is zoned with high density and features several high-rises:

[Image: bHmp20.jpg]

The traffic volume view for mass transit (GLR and subway) in that area looks like this:

[Image: PfCXms.jpg]

The next picture is rotated by 90 degrees to show a section of an avenue where GLR tracks branch off from the center of the avenue to move to the side and enter a subway tunnel - that tunnel becomes the second (middle) inter-city subway connector:

[Image: VK0DAv.jpg]

Circled in red is a GLR track layout intended to 'capture' some of the GLR traffic into the subway tunnel, before the traffic circle on the right of the picture where other GLR tracks arrive. So far it doesn't work as well as I would like, that is, it does not divert enough traffic, as can be seen here:

[Image: skK8sT.jpg]

If we look at the paths leading to the busiest of the 3 subway links, we can see that their origins are nearly exclusively in residential buildings in the area. The traffic simulator is sending all those Sims 'on the other side of the border' to find work there:

[Image: 5cUILa.jpg]



Now we take a look at the other end of the link, in Arcens. Because of the already mentioned difficulty to get traffic figures to jive, especially in the 3-cities setup illustrated here, the numbers are different, and the first link is saturated. Here are the surface and the subway views of the area:

[Image: o7WmeT.jpg]

[Image: r8ZnTM.jpg]

The second view shows the rather complex array of subway tunnels and GLR tracks with transitions. The middle link terminates at a train station. The rightmost link arrives into a GLR+subway combo station of which all 4 tiles are occupied by tunnels.

The leftmost link, the one that is saturated, ends with a subway-to-GLR transition that is immediately adjacent to a 'grand union' GLR intersection. The GLR tracks going toward the train station are very close to saturation:

[Image: DJJcDK.jpg]

This specific arrangement is not satisfying, and should be improved, even in the case where it is possible to reduce the congestion by a better balancing of the loads. Because the area is rather cramped with railway tracks, roads and buildings, making things better there is quite a challenge.
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#42
Pierre,

your CJ updates are so amazing , as compared to my small ones.... they leave me speechless really !

The majority of them have so many great images like this one.. I really like the high rise pic of your city a lot, because it shows what beautiful cities you build..
Of course, beautiful to us is dense urban cities with very high populations usually.. But this is how we like to play sc4 Smile

Also one aspect we both love in sc4 is Traffic..
and you of course manage it as well as anyone i know ..

It is also of interest to me most of your recent postings have been about subways, as in my current city this is a big transit player, this time around for me also..
And so we can learn things from each other which is nice...

But yes in your dense cities, as your final image shows.. if you have reached the traffic limit ( of any network type really).. I would also place a high priority on this as also besides the large congestion you want to know what the traffic figures are as they are reported accurately..

One reason i stopped using so many connections to other cities is because its to difficult for me to keep traffic under control.
Thats why it is so impressive to me ... your ability to manage all this traffic in these situations..

But , yes another fine update by you !!
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